Posts by zen nudist

15

sorry enough?

by kj in

there's something i've always wondered about- how do the elders decide when a disfellowshipped person is "sorry enough" for their sin to be reinstated?

for instance, if someone is immediately repentant for something they've done, even turning themselves in, and they still get disfellowshipped for a set period of time.

how is this scriptural?

zen nudist

consciously or not, JWs and many others like them use hypnotic techniques routinely and the disfellowshipping process fits right in... allow me to explain.

no one can hypnotize another against their will... but anyone can be hypnotized.

when a stage hypnotist gets his volunteers, he works the crowd to find just the right amount of willingness to participate. there are many people who just need some excuse to make a fool of themselves and like alcohol, hypnosis provides this. A trained hypnotist looks for such individuals... their friends would NEVER suspect that they would follow a hypnotists absurd suggestions and that makes the trick ever so magical.

with religions, the hypnotists need to weed out those who are not willing to allow others to think for them. they need to find those who doubt, question and scrutinize everything and get rid of them quickly. so its not about the crimes against Jehovah you have committed, its about your degree of suseptibility to following orders blindly.

JWs and many others speak out against hynposis-- they have been told to do this and I dont think they understand the why of it, but it is obvious that they dont want anyone learning how the con works...

ever notice that the main talk at most assemblies is right after lunch when everyone is nodding off from the food?? its probably a very good way to program the masses of JWs present.. your mind is at its lowest efficiency and your ability to challenge is likewise impaired. sleep teaching does not work, so they constantly remind people to pay attention and stay alert... they need you semi-conscious.

to the original topic, you are sorry enough when you show you really want to follow orders and are not rebelling against them, but simply a flawed cog in the system doing the best you can.

remember sheperds are predators who fool sheep into a false sense of security... they dont want thinking rational people... they want sheeple... its hard to fleece and lead to the slaughter those who are thinking.

28

How do I find God if I want to find him?

by Singing Man in

yes, i have many times asked this of my self.

after leavening the witness's its been hard, i think ewww i am no good cause unless i am attending the kingdom hall i won't have gods grace and he won't hear my prayers or anything.

boy they sure had me, being raised a witness sticks with you long after you leave in ways you think it never would and in ways you just can't can't flush.

zen nudist

I often call the ultimate reality G.O.D. or Generator Of Diversity. and by this I mean everything and everyone together as a whole, not a detached god who seeks to impose his insanity or opinion upon us.

I call the observer the dreamer since he is what his true nature dictates, which he himself did not make, whether god or not. The dreams arise within his mind of that nature's activities. whether he controls anything at all is hard to say since that is a lot harder to define than it seems at first glance.

after all the concept of freewill is something I find a bit mythical

if your actions have causes, are they free? if uncaused, are they willed? is there a third alternative which is neither cause or uncause?

50

How do we stop feeling like exjws?

by Brummie in

i dont know.

today i had an episode of dissociation, the feeling of being totally disconnected from everything and everyone.

as if all of a sudden i knew no one or wasnt connected to anyone.

zen nudist

alt

I am in no way suggesting that what I am trying to show is the ONLY way to accomplish the goal set out in the topic-- how do we stop feeling like an ex JW... instead I am sharing a method which has worked for me and has a universality which can be applied to all.

the mechanics of emotions are impossible to understand even though many have been taught to think otherwise and this because those who do understand how they work have used that knowledge to manipulate and dominate others.

here is my website page where I fully explain them www.geotcities.com/jiohdi/emotions.html

28

How do I find God if I want to find him?

by Singing Man in

yes, i have many times asked this of my self.

after leavening the witness's its been hard, i think ewww i am no good cause unless i am attending the kingdom hall i won't have gods grace and he won't hear my prayers or anything.

boy they sure had me, being raised a witness sticks with you long after you leave in ways you think it never would and in ways you just can't can't flush.

zen nudist

one day I woke up to the fact that the ONLY god[s] I knew about were in books. I was an idea which I had never seriously challenged. So now after many years of challenging this idea, I find the following... no god[s] needed to explain anything, no god[s] required for any reason, and no god[s] necessary for my contentment or sense of morality. I realized something often overlooked... no one argues that something has eternally existed since no one seriously believes that something can arise from nothing. even the quantum hard vaccuum is not nothing but a seithing sea of virtual energies... whether this eternal existance is call god or just ultimate reality, it did not make itself and thus has no control over its own nature. I see that we are all whatever that is, there is no reason to believe that any part of ultimate reality should be seen as God apart from all others. There is no evidence that any part of ultimate reality has any super powers to make it even seem like a god to the rest of us.... and no way to tell if an alien being who possess higher technology could not simply pretend to be such a being. I have come to believe that all of us are interconnected into the one whole while still retaining our own individuality, ONE and MANY. a Paradox but not a contradiction. We are all as drops of water in a single ocean sharing the waves as our collectively shared view of reality.

The bible god shows an all too human face all to often. repenting of evil thoughts [ex 32:14] blessing war crimes [numbers 31] being far less than all knowing [genesis 18:21-22] and being far less than almighty as in the book of Judges where Jehovah was with the people but could not defeat one enemy because they possessed Iron chariots.

As to Jesus, the book Pagan christs shows over 13 godman myths prior to him with the same basic themes. There is no actual evidence aside from scholarly opinions that Jesus was even a real person. All historical references outside the bible are made by people NOT ALIVE at the time and thus only reporting hearsay at best. And the bible itself shows that the first preacher of Jesus who actually wrote anything never met a flesh and blood man, but only a risen visionary christ whos name not coincidentally was a common name widely known to mean YHVH is the savior... like many literary characters being named after their job functions.

People fear that life would have NO meaning without a god existing... yet that is not where meaning arises. there is NO meaning OF life, there is only meaning found by the living. If it has meaning to you it is because you care about it. you care about it because you are aware that it can alter your contentment and by extention the contentment of others whos lack of contentment would effect your own. the life of most animals seems completely meaning less to us watching them live and die so quickly, but while they are living them their lives are full of meaning to them.

as to what happens after death--

I have never known a single moment when I did not exist and never shall.

if my death is the end I wont be around to care. if it is not the end but a transition to another level of existance, I find no reason to believe that what I do in this life will control all of eternity... to me that is just plain silly.

22

The silent cancer in the organization

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

cancer is one of the worlds biggest killers.

some people discover they have cancer early and they can have it quickly removed and be cured.

others are not so lucky.

zen nudist

** Welcome aboard Zen. Your comment above bears the unmistakable stamp of someone raised in the truth.

Actually, no, I was raised a Catholic and jumped that ship at age 12. I saw no relationship to reality there. I met JWs at age 14 and studied for 5 years mostly because I really had no desire to join any religion.

I started attending meetings at age 18 regularly and was hooked. I got baptized at 19 in 1980. I studied a lot of JW materials going back to the beginnings... the Ampere cong. of JWs in E orange NJ had a set of volume of the WatchTower which were bound from 1879 to 1914. I also got the 6 volume set of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES from the Dawn Bible students. I found old Judge Rutherford books and many others... I was skeptical about a lot of things JWs wrote about themselves in those books-- I always thought it was silly to see JW conventions as fulfillments of revelation prophecies, but I could forgive such things because I was in not position to know any better... but I was pretty sure they were way off the mark on those things. I always kept in mind that they often said they were not inspired even though I knew better than to say so outloud (^_^)

I have been part of three quick built kingdom hall projects and have first hand witnessed the power of the BORG collective in action... which according to the book TRUE BELIEVERS [Fromm] is the main power of all group organizations.

50

How do we stop feeling like exjws?

by Brummie in

i dont know.

today i had an episode of dissociation, the feeling of being totally disconnected from everything and everyone.

as if all of a sudden i knew no one or wasnt connected to anyone.

zen nudist

**B.S. "Bad Habits" vary from person to person, so what works for you may not work for another. As far as "misunderstandings of how **thoughts and emotions are tied together" Thoughts and emotions go hand in hand, we are not purely logical creatures!!!!!! Your thoughts can **be led by emotions the same as your thoughts can be led by logic, it has nothing to do with that.

This is a topic often filled with misunderstandings... for example --Thoughts and emotions go hand in hand, we are not purely logical creatures-- you say this like I said the opposite when infact what I said was exactly this.

now as to --Your thoughts can be led by emotions the same as your thoughts can be led by logic-- here you are not understanding something important. There is no emotion without a comparison and a belief involved... many of these comparisons are hidden and it takes a lot of effort to bring them to consciousness. one example of a hidden comparison is when you see someone as beautiful vs ugly. you are comparing them to a hidden template within and do not consciously realise that it is even being done without effort or learning to see it. Many emotions arise from these hidden things... this is one reason why ex JWs find it hard to break free of their emotions, they do not realize that they are making a comparison which was programmed into them by JWs. JW and christian theology in general puts a lot of effort into making an ideal fantasy world view. this view is programmed into the believer unconsciously. and once imbedded it becomes the standard of measure of all other perceptions about the world, it makes the world seem FLAWED when infact it contains the flaw. its flaw is in that it is a rejection of reality not an understanding of it... it is hard to break the habit of seeing someone as ugly, it seems like a natural property of reality, not the product of an inner comparison. so too its hard for people NOT to see themselves as flawed because they feel it too is a natural property of reality.

with understanding people can learn to see all comparisons as they arise and to challenge their source and validity. I never claimed this was easy and for some it may not even be possible, but that is for history to record not for me to judge or pretend to know.

50

How do we stop feeling like exjws?

by Brummie in

i dont know.

today i had an episode of dissociation, the feeling of being totally disconnected from everything and everyone.

as if all of a sudden i knew no one or wasnt connected to anyone.

zen nudist

** But emotionally, the past still has it's hold on our current thinking, and the hope for the future is marred by the past.

Many think that emotions are different from thoughts as if they were opposites, but the fact is that all thoughts have an emotional component and all emotions are likewise a function of ideas and beliefs.

Think of emotions as symbols of energy which moves a motor [your body/muscles etc], beliefs are the regulator of that energy. it is not a seperation between belief and emotion but between irration beliefs which seek to move your body in ways it cannot go, like into the past and the future vs rational beliefs about what can be done right now... the more irrational your belief or demand on yourself or the universe the stronger the emotional energy you have within you trying to move your body where it cannot go... an analogy is your car is moving down the highway and you throw it into reverse... your car will not stop moving forwards... but the transmission may start losing parts all over the place and you will feel some really bad things .. .this is how these irration emotions effect us too...

these emotions have NO hold on your current thinking beyond what your beliefs give them... it is bad habits of thought, misunderstandings of how thoughts and emotions are tied together, etc. which cause these bad feelings. Through Zen I have found many techniques and practices which break these bad mental habits and help form new and more beneficial ones.

Everything you do in one way or another tries to bring your back to a state of contentment.... but when the dis-ease is mentally based, there can be no other cure than changes of thought pattern.

it takes time and effort and that is why it is called practice, but like anything else, the more effort you put into it the easier it gets.

50

How do we stop feeling like exjws?

by Brummie in

i dont know.

today i had an episode of dissociation, the feeling of being totally disconnected from everything and everyone.

as if all of a sudden i knew no one or wasnt connected to anyone.

zen nudist

you cannot change a single step that brought you to this point. call it reality, the universal unfolding, God's will, whatever you can identify with, but call it the reality of what DID infact happen. no one is anywhere else but where they find themselves at this very moment and no one can alter how anyone got here... there is no choice about how we got here, your options are ahead of you, but accepting how you got here is fundament to seeing clearly where you can go from here. Driving a car 100kph with your eyes focused mostly in the rearview mirror is not the best way I can think of driving.... that is exactly what you do when your mind is focused on every other what if or if only moment of the past and not paying attention to the living present moment. you are being haunted by a dead ghost, the past. it has only as much power over you as you give it. when your mind gets overwhelmed, tell yourself, I am here now, I cannot change how I got here and I dont know better than the universe... and no one else is superior to me, we are all exactly where we must be at this very moment and cannot be anywhere else. name what you see around you, focus your mind on the living present moment and banish those dead ghost memories.

Understand this also, the future you think about is a distorted mirror not a window. the goals you are currently persuing are not ahead of you, they are desires pushing you from the past, more ghosts... take each moment as it comes, one heart beat at a time, one breath. examine your body, see if you are holding it tight without realizing it... relax, you are where you belong, not where you wish you were... all of us are.

there are two hells and one heaven.

not getting what you want

getting what you want

wanting what you get.

you figure out which is which.

22

The silent cancer in the organization

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

cancer is one of the worlds biggest killers.

some people discover they have cancer early and they can have it quickly removed and be cured.

others are not so lucky.

zen nudist

Sheperds are predators who fool sheep into a false sense of security if they can... the sheep do not wake up to the fact that they are being fleeced and eventually lead to the slaughter. There is a cancer in the mind of JWs, it is a mental virus which makes them see reality as flawed by an unseen ideal fantasy which defies logic and reason as superior.

JWs are time and again presented with the UBER JW who always goes out in field service, never doubts the word of the society which he studies in every spare moment and meditates on even in dreams... and raises his family with policestate efficiency and unspoke threats of the back room meeting for failure to comply.... this ideal JW is presented as a comparison so that real JWs can feel guilt and shame and rejection of their own real life.

50

How do we stop feeling like exjws?

by Brummie in

i dont know.

today i had an episode of dissociation, the feeling of being totally disconnected from everything and everyone.

as if all of a sudden i knew no one or wasnt connected to anyone.

zen nudist

by realizing that we are all part of a single reality, we are many and we are one... JWs are part of what we were and still are. you are only EX in the sense of not identifying your current beliefs or practices with this group... but they are part of reality as it currently exists and there is no need to see them as other. reality is perfect unto itself until you compare it to something it is not and perhaps never will be... ideals are part of the brain washing tools that JWs use to guilt people into submission... ideals are rejections of reality as you find it with the claim that something unreal is superior. all ideals are made in igornorance of how reality actually works.